I love running. I love weight training and bodybuilding. By trying to do both, am I destined to be ineffective at both?
Many of you are runners too. And if you subscribe to this blog, you are no doubt into weight training. I keep hearing and reading on other blogs that you can’t do both. That’s bull. Here’s their theory: pumping iron builds muscle mass that will add weight to your body; that added weight will slow you down and add stress to your knees and other soft tissue ultimately leading to injuries if you run. And on the other hand, steady-state cardio (medium or long distance running) will burn more muscle than it burns fat. [Some experts even go so far as to say "give up cardio totally". I've got an upcoming post to dismiss that, but back to today's post...]
Bottom Line: They’re partially right – yes, it presents big challenges to try to do both, and their theory is correct. But their conclusion is wrong – of course you CAN do both! I say – forget the science. Do what you love!
Did He Just Say To Ignore Science?
Well, sort of. I’m not saying ignore it – I’m just saying that life is too short to live in fear. So a more pragmatic (but less pithy) way of saying is: learn the science so that you can compensate for the hard realities and still do what you love.
What is “Running”?
For simplicity, let’s break running into two categories (yes, I know there are a million ways to slice it, but stay with me here for my point):
a) steady-state, medium- to long-distance (like jogging or at the high end, marathons); in this running you are keeping your pace and heart rate pretty constant
b) interval-style, short, with intense bursts (like sprinting); in this running, your pace and heart rate vary considerably throughout the run
This post isn’t talking about high-intensity burst running, like sprints or hill intervals. Lots of science has shown that type of running to be very effective for burning fat and only needs 20-30 minutes of it a few times a week. It works well (and even complements) a hard-core weight training regimen and I’m not arguing about that. And most bodybuilding/weight training gurus also don’t argue with that.
I’m also not talking about competitive runners or bodybuilders. Since I am not, nor have I ever been, a top marathoner or on-stage bodybuilder, I can’t attest to how doing both might affect the upper echelon of athletes. But know this:Tom Venuto, champion bodybuilder, is not one of those people who poo-poo running. He’s got an entire chapter on cardio in Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle (that’s an outstanding book, weighing in at 341 pages – yes, 341!). And even Arnold typically ran 4 or 5 miles several times a week during his show prep (though he doesn’t mention, in his outstanding Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding, at what intensity level he ran).
I’m talking about 20 to 40 mile a week, subscribe-to-Runner’s-World, “looking for the runner’s high” kind of running. The science is pretty conclusive that you will be burning muscle after about 60 minutes or so of steady-state running. But I don’t care, because I love it. And there are ways to mitigate the downsides (see below).
Now, you don’t want to have running be your only exercise: if you’re fat, you’ll take too long to lose it, and if you’re normal-weight, you’ll turn into that “skinney-fat” you see in many marathoners that is antithetical to what the WFN community is striving for.
How To Be a Runner and a Bodybuilder
Here’s how you CAN be gaining lean muscle mass through weight training AND do medium to long-distance running:
1. Eat. Eat lots. Eat often. Eat slow carbs (for example, oats) and lean proteins. If you are lifting weights 3-4 times a week and running 3-4 times a week, you need calories. But don’t go for sugary calories.
2. Stagger your running distances on different days. For example, I run 3 times a week: 6 miles, then 8 miles, then 10 miles. Once in a while, my 10 miler goes to 13.1 (a half marathon).
3. Pick one run to be an interval run. Why? This recruits more fast-twitch muscles, burns more fat, and increases your overall speed. For me, it’s usually my 8 miler. I turn this into an interval run as follows: first 5 minutes is steady state, then I alternate with roughly this sequence: sprint for about 1 minute at about 90% of my max speed, then slow to shuffle (about walking speed really) for 1 minute, then get back to regular pace for about 2 minutes. Repeat until you are done, but make sure your last minute is a full-on 100% sprint. You’ll be astonished how quickly you tire out!
4. Never run on the day after your leg-training day for weights. You need a day to rest after maxing out on squats. If you don’t, your leg muscles are not going to grow.
5. Never run before weights. You need maximum focus and strength to get the most out of your weight training sessions. If you don’t believe me, try it each way for one week and you’ll see what I mean!
6. Weights, Refuel, Run. After your weight training session, take a 30 minute break or so and get some protein and good carbs before you run. But make your refueling light so you don’t upset your stomach.
7. Watch our stretching. Don’t do too much static stretching beforehand. There is some mixed science on this issue, but I recommend you do dynamic stretches before your weight training, and before your running, but do static stretches on your off days or after your workouts.
8. Pay really close attention to your body. If you notice the start of any injury, back off a bit. I personally suffered from plantar fasciitis several years ago because I tried to keep running for weeks after it started. By then much damage was done. Remember – you’re trying to do two things you love (weight training and running) while improving your health and physique. Don’t be bullheaded and think you are superhuman.
8.5 Change your socks. Always change your socks before you start a run. Your feet will appreciate it!
If you are running simply to “get in your cardio”, and you hate running, then absolutely go for the aforementioned sprints or hills. And read Mike Geary’s The Truth About 6-Pack Abs, p. 89 to 92 (that book is so much more than a book about abs, by the way, as my critique of the book highlights).
But if you love running, for the joy of running, don’t give it up. And don’t give up your weight training either.
If you are a “runner” who is also dedicated to weight training to build lean muscle mass, please share your own tips by commenting below!
Looking to burn fat with weight training? Tired of typical routines?
Get my metabolic routine here: Fat Burn Furnace!
Related posts:
- Bodybuilding Snobs vs. Strength Training Snobs vs. Running Snobs
- 16 Tips to Triple Your Workout Effectiveness
- Lifting Lessons With My Dad – 12 Tips
Tags: cardio, running, weight training
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March 12th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Thanks for the advice. I have used this technique in the past and it has worked well. I agree with the sprinting info. Great stuff!
March 12th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Cool Don – have you picked up any other tips you can share?
March 14th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Can you post some links to articles related to the use of “high-intensity burst running” for loosing weight? Thanks.
March 15th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Sure lamcro – give me a few days to gather the resources, so check back mid-week.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
SICK! How about doing speed runs or short speed bursts 5 times a week? Do you think that would greatly encourage fat loss? Or should i stick to doing speed bursts 1-2 times a week for fat loss?
Great write up bro!
March 19th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Hey Tyson – each person reacts differently. For me, I need a combination of the steady state cardio with bursts to maximize my fat loss. The science is pretty clear that in aggregate (meaning the average over a number of people and studies) is that sprint-HIIT will burn more fat. But there are exceptions based on your body type and metabolism.
I don’t recommend sprints 5x a week though – because with that frequency, you won’t be giving your muscles any time to recuperate. If sprinting was the ONLY exercise you were doing, then it’s probably fine but I assume you are doing strength training (including legs) at least 2x a week with weights too. That means you need rest days in there.
March 19th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Lamcro – the original science on this issue is hard to interpret, as they often use secondary indicators like glucose metabolism or maximal oxygen consumption but here are two solid science sources for you plus one great article from a site that I generally don’t like much but in this case has good content:
1) This is the one that started it all off in 1994: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8028502
2) This is a more current “repeat” with similar findings:
Effect of Exercise Training Intensity on Abdominal Visceral Fat and Body Composition
3) This is a less-scientific but still accurate layperson article: http://www.askmen.com/sports/b.....s_tip.html
And this guy seems to have cut and pasted things from various articles: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/.....12486.html
Interesting to note that there are several studies showing that simply doing weight training itself increases fat loss. For example, here’s one.
March 20th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Thanks. I’ll be reading them soon.
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:59 am
Right on Darrin thanks for the input! I am currently doing weights so I will probably just do sprints twice a week Max.
April 3rd, 2009 at 8:12 am
Very important article, Darrin. It´s refreshing to hear, for a change, that you don’t need to give up long-distance running if you want to lift heavy weights. I got a question, though: if I shouldn’t run the day after my leg-training day, how can I fit three runs into one week? Could you suggest a sample schedule for someone who lifts 3 times a week (and trains legs 3 times every 2 weeks)? Thanks a lot.
Sandro Tavares
Brasilia, Brazil
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:17 am
Hi Sandro – sure thing. Except for one run a week, I run on the same day as weights. Now keep in mind I am not a beginner, so any beginners out there should not follow my schedule. But what I do is
M – leg workout #1, abs
T – upper body workout #1
W – long run (10 miles)
Th – upper body workout #2
F – leg workout #2, abs, short run (4.5 miles)
S – rest
S – upper body workout #3, medium run (6 miles, plus 2 miles of sprint work)
Note that I never do the same exact exercise more than once a week. My “upper body #1″ workout is very different than my “upper body #2″, for example.
For most people, I would recommend something more like this:
M – upper body, long run (whatever “long” means to you)
T – off
W – legs, abs, short run
Th – off
F – full body (upper and lower), abs, medium run with sprints
S and S – off
Does this help?
April 6th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
It sure does, Darrin. Thank you very much.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Hey Darrin, what a refreshing article. I’m sick to the teeth of people saying that ‘runs are useless for fat loss’ and ‘cadio is obsolete’. I do two bodyweight circuits per week using push-ups, wall squats. pull-ups, planks and burpees. But without question, my favorite exercise is running. Or should U say, outdoor running. Treadmills, for me, are a different world. Running gives me a buzz like no other kind of training. It relaxes me and while every run isn’t enjoyable, most are. People like boxers and other athletes have performed old-school cardio like rope jumping and running for decades – and it worked for them. The way some people are talking now, you’d swear HIIT and interval training was the ONLY WAY to fat loss. I do have one question, however: I run 4 times a week at between 70% to 85% of my heart rate. Would one interval session shift more fat? Say, 30 second sprints sprinkled throughout a normal run? Thanks, loved the article. Cheers, K.
June 17th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Darrin, This is a great article & very practical and seems to be you are very experienced.
June 21st, 2009 at 7:07 pm
I have been looking for this type of information for a long time. I love running but also want to continue to build muscle (as I’m not very big). I am so happy I found this, thank you so much Darrin. I have now subscribed to this website and am looking forward to reading more of your articles.
March 1st, 2010 at 2:23 pm
This is really good as I haven’t found much about combining running and bodybuilding. The vast majority are either in one camp or the other.
What would you recommend to eat/drink before going for a run to preserve muscle? I’m naturally pretty thin and don’t want to end up looking like a marathon runner!
March 1st, 2010 at 9:48 pm
@Jules – since you are already thin, you clearly aren’t using running as a fat-loss accelerator. So running for you is about the sport of running itself (and the heart-health). In that case, I would eat carbs and proteins (I know, pretty obvious right?) but heavier on protein beforehand and heavier on carbs afterward. But you have to be careful about upset stomach. When my runs go over about 8 miles I have to be very sensitive about what and when I eat. So you have to experiment. What are you eating now? Specifically for longer runs I’d eat a banana and a protein shake (pure whey protein, not with milk). So that’s mostly protein but some carbs. Probably about 30 to 45 minutes before. For really long runs I also take a goo or gel with me and take that about every 5 miles. Then, afterward, I’d eat something like oatmeal or grapenuts (so mostly carbs but some protein). I’d wait about 30 minutes after the run before I’d eat. Hope that helps!
Also, fyi, see http://worldfitnessnetwork.com.....r-workout/
March 2nd, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Hi Darrin,
Running for me is definitely for health and for the enjoyment. I get the best buzz from running that cannot be matched by any other exercise!
At the moment I’ve been waiting about an hour and a half after eating before I go for a run. Normally it will be after lunch or after a protein shake.
I’ll give the banana and whey thing a go and see how I get on.
Out of interest I wonder if you know the effect of doing cardio at a higher hr (say 80-85% of mhr) for long distance rather than the typical fat buring zone as used in bodybuilding. I’m sure that it is good for vo2 max, but I wonder about the effect on muscle and fat?
I tend to only get the runners high if I go above 70% mhr
Thanks
Jules
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:36 pm
@Jules – I wrote about this in http://worldfitnessnetwork.com.....ober-2009/ where I covered a recent scientific study of exactly your question. The short summary:
The best fat burning zone was at about 68% to 87% of maximal heart rate, while the best aerobic zone was between 59% and 76%. Note the big overlap. Translation: you can simultaneously optimize fat burn and aerobic fitness by targeting between 68% and 76%.
If you dig deeper, there are two other points worth noting: a) the difference in fat calories burned can differ by a factor of 2 or so; this means there really is a fat-burning zone, and b) there is a high variability from individual to individual so you can’t just assume these averages apply to everyone; you’ll need to do some testing on yourself to see which range is best.
March 4th, 2010 at 8:34 am
Hi Darrin,
Now I am confused, I thought that the fat burning zone was around 59% to 75% and that the aerobic zone was about 68% to 87%!
What you have suggested seems contrary to the things I have read in the past. I always thought that bodybuilders do cardio in the 60-75% range as this is what is best for fat burning.
I’m going out for a run in a bit, so I shall play around with running at a slightly reduced hr to get into the optimal zone for both.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:26 am
@Jules – woops! Typo alert. Should have said “The best aerobic zone was at about 68% to 87% of maximal heart rate, while the best fat burning zone was between 59% and 76%.” Sorry!
Note that if you look up the original study, their abstract also makes this error but if you read the full paper and look at the charts (which I have right in front of me as I just rechecked this), then you’ll see that it was reversed. Again, sorry.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Ah I did wonder! I tried the banana and scoop of whey and it seemed to be ok.
One more question for you. Do you think training legs twice a week can be too much when running? I was thinking of following the 3 day upper/lower/full body split that you mention above, but I will be running on the other 3 days. (full body day will be a high rep lower weight day)
I’m trying to exercise every day (sunday will be a light day of stretching and core stability) and don’t really want to take a day of after leg day if possible.
Alternatively I will have a go at http://www.defrancostraining.c.....part1.html which has only one lower body day to allow for recovery from other sports
Cheers
Jules
March 17th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
@Jules – one thing I’ve been trying recently (and will be writing about soon) is what I call The URL Sequence:
Day1: Upper Body Lifting
Day2: Run
Day3: Lower Body Lifting, possibly including 10 min of intense sprints
Day4: recovery
repeat in the URL sequencing.
So it’s an 8-day week where I’m doing long steady running (between 4 and 8 miles) twice a week and doing intense leg work twice a week.
So far I’m finding that I’m making progress in my squats and in my run times without any negatives.
Try it and let me know!
March 26th, 2010 at 11:22 am
I’m a 55 yr old male. I’ve been weight training for about 4 years now and had been using an elliptical trainer for cardio for reduced stress on the “older” joints. I found it hard to push myself on the elliptical so I sold that and started doing rope jumping , running stairs, heavy bag training, jumping jacks etc for a cardio WO. It’s a great way to train but you can get fried pretty easily if you’re not careful. I’ve been debating as to whether or not running 2-3 miles a few times a week might be a good way to stay lean without loosing the bit of muscle that I have or if the HIIT style is actually better for my purposes?. BTW My purpose for strength and cardio training is for health & fitness. As you get older it’s hard enough to gain muscle. I’m not interested in getting bigger as much as stripping off the fat and maximizing what I have. Also. Do you find full body or splits working best for you and what rep ranges? I’ve been doing a 5×5 FB with heavy weight but I can only sustain that for 6-8 weeks before I need to back off.
March 27th, 2010 at 6:43 am
@gordon – several questions in here. Without private consult, I can only give general answers. First off, congrats on keeping at it despite getting older! For fat loss, the most important thing is your eating. After that, what you are comparing is HIIT vs steady state. I have an article coming soon that will show that even though HIIT gets more scientific credit for fat loss, the studies are artificial – you need to study what people actually do in real life and as you know, doing HIIT is very hard. Ultimately the best exercises are the exercises you love to do, that you can do intensely. From what little I see about your personality, I’d suggest a blend. Either do steady state stuff for 3-4 weeks, then switch to HIIT stuff for 3-4 weeks, etc, continuing to alternate weeks OR I’d alternate cardio workouts between steady state and HIIT. Keep in mind though that HIIT will interfere more with your lifting workout schedule.
For your question on lifting, it all depends on goals. a 5×5 type workout is generally good if you have been lifting for at least a year (I created an alternate called the 6x6x6 routine) but I always switch up routines. Nothing works “forever”. If you’ve been going a 5×5 type lifting program for a while, take 2-3 months and focus on a full-body routine.
May 17th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Darren,
I have been trying some bodyweight circuits recently – 8 exercises done back-to-back with zero rest. wait 1 minute and go again for a total of three sets. But I love running too and I like to go three times a week for 30-45 mins. Will doing all of the above result in overtraining? I’m male, 44. I don’t like weights, and find the bodyweight circuits really ‘burn’ my muscles. I don’t do interval runs’; just steady state.
May 18th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@Kieran – are you running and doing the bodyweight stuff on different days? If so, that could mean your legs are getting hit 6 days in a row. It’s probably ok for most people because in your entire week, it’s all endurance-focus, not strength focus. Pay really close attention to your joints and how they feel. If you start getting knee pain, for example, then back off. It sounds like your goals are not muscle building but either endurance or fat burning, right? Some people are afraid of overtraining, but it’s really hard to actually overtrain. However, it is easy to see no progress because of overall bad program design. Your routine sounds fine for fat loss or endurance but if someone was looking to add muscle then changes would be needed.
May 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Hi Darrin,
Thanks for the response to my question. I’ve decided to add the 3-4 days of running to my fitness schedule along with weights and it seems to be working well. I generally run about 3 miles 3 days per week. I was doing the 5×5 WO and now I’m starting a 4 day split which will fit in nicely with running I think and after 6-8 weeks of the split I’ll do the full body routine again. Just thought I’d drop by and add the update.
Take Care!
May 19th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Hi Darren,
Yes, I do bodyweight circuits Mon, Wed and Fri. But I run Tues, Thurs and Sat, so yes, I would be training six days a week. My gaols ARE fat loss and a toned, slim look. I’m not into the ‘bodybuilder’ look. But I DO know how important muscle mass is for metabolism. Would I be better trimming my bodyweight circuits down to twice a week and then just run the other days?
My bodyweight circuit consists of 60 jumping jacks followed by push-ups, wall squats, single-leg squats, plank, and burpees. I do one set, rest 1 minute and go for another 2 sets.
May 20th, 2010 at 9:16 am
@Kieran – love to help more, but we’d need to get into a lot of back-and-forth specifics on your situation that are separate from this article’s focus. I’d need your current height, weight, bodytype, bodyfat, etc. If you’d like to talk more, let’s do it over on the forum: http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/forum . Create a new post there and we can correspond (and others can jump in too!).
June 17th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Hi Darrin,
Thanks for the great information. I will surely take your advice, i really need to get in shape for now and i am just starting this kind of lose weight program so i need to take it slow first.. i look forward to read more of your articles too.
June 28th, 2010 at 10:30 am
The greatest fat loss workout involves high intensity interval training, a typical sense diet and plenty of rest.