Do you use the assisted pull-up machine? Some people also use it for dips.
I’m talking about the machine where you can either stand or kneel on a platform. Then you adjust the “counterbalance” weight to essentially reduce your bodyweight for the exercise.
We’re talking about it a little over here [click]
Most people use the machine because they aren’t yet ready to do enough pure bodyweight reps (what I call the “real” exercise). As you might guess, I’m not a fan of them. [LeanLifter members may remember that I suggested many better ways to increase your # of "real" chin-ups or pull-ups here [click].]
But I want a bigger swath of responses – so can you chime in? Does it help you? Are you progressing on it? Have you banned it from your workout? Do you love it? Have you seen significant progress on your “real” versions because of your use of this machine?
Post your comment below!
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September 9th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Y’all can blame me for giving Darrin the idea for this post :) I do think it is a worthwhile machine – if you really work it hard. For me, that would be using the amount of counterweight where I can do about eight pull-ups, with the last two being a real challenge and the last one being very hard.
I can now do four real wide-grip palms-out pull-ups, and I’ll keep concentrating on increasing that number. I’ll be spending more time at a gym with a good pull-up bar, and this gym does not have the assisted pull-up machine. (I alternate between three city-run rec centers – one where my boys have swim practice, one that is close to the house, and the new one that is nicer but less convenient.)
My wife and I usually work out together, and we use this machine more than the lat pulldown machine. I may use it with her (at the “nice new” rec center) as part of a pull-up drop set. But we’ll mostly be at the rec center where the boys are swimming (no assisted pull-up machine), so I may get her to try Darrin’s tips for real pull-ups in lieu of using the (always crowded) lat pulldown machine.
I can see me continuing to use it like this: do as many as I can with no counterweight (put a 25-lb plate on the platform), then get my wife to take off the plate and set the counterweight to the lowest weight so I can squeeze out a few more, then maybe change the weight once more and get in a couple more reps. Just like a drop set with a bench press or any other exercise.
I do believe this machine helped me, but I did use it with the goal of graduating to real pull-ups. When you use it, it should feel like you’re actually doing a pull-up (although your body will be more stable because your knees are on the platform). Use the least amount of counterweight you can in order to do a small number of reps.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I am no expert about weight lifting or exercise science so bear with me.I have used one in the past when I first got serious about exercising and let me tell from my experience it is not an equal transition, whatsoever. Without the machine you will generate stablizer muscles and have a much stronger contraction that will help you build more muscle in the long run. The way to get better at anything is to perform the action. So for me the way to “master” this exercise and the same with push-ups and probably any other exercises is the ladder concept and a positive attitude to progress. But I know is more than one way to improve, but for me it doesnt include the assisted pull-up machine.
P.S. Oh, lets not forget having good technique can do wonders.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
I am new to bodybuilding (Jan. ‘09). My gym has the assisted pull-up/dip machine. I am 6′5″ & 245 pounds so it helps me at least work on my form. It is very difficult for me to do a pull-up/dip (maybe 1 if I’m lucky) without the machine. I had a Personal Trainer for 10 weeks and he recommended it. Thanks for your post on this, Darrin
September 10th, 2009 at 7:08 am
I do use these machine. I have used them for training to failure, do normal pull-ups and dips will i carnt complete a full rep then put some weight on stand on the plate and train to failure. I do think that these are a good way in which to progressivly put weight on the excersise to get to doing full reps on bodyweight.
September 10th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Not everyone has developed the strength to properly perform this exercise [e.g. bodyweight chins/pullups]. I believe the mechanics of chins/pullups are better than pulldown variations for proper back development. So I’d rather see folks doing them with the right technique even if they cannot achieve the actual load of their regular bodyweight. Start mixing them in with low rep pullups as their strength increases and sooner or later they can drop the machine. However, another consideration is for the older crowd, e.g. seniors, who are declining in strength and are no longer able to do bodyweight pullups, but would definitely benefit from the exercise.
September 10th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
You all have brought up some good points. I like John’s reminder about the stabilizer muscles only being truly involved without the machines (and that’s also why I often say abs exercises are “non-essential extras” for people who eat smart and do The Big 7).
I also like Charlie’s point about older people who are having a hard time maintaining strength as they age. I know quite a few “over 60″ guys who can do many pure chin-ups but unfortunately they are in the minority. So “something” is almost always better than “nothing”.
If you haven’t chimed in yet, what do you think?
September 11th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
I found it very difficult to do pull ups when i started working out. I follow a progression method.
i started off with a certain assistance (50) and reps of 8 and 3 sets
once i am able to do 10 reps comfortably i reduce the assistance. now i am using assistance of 30 and 9 reps and 3 sets.
I do the same for Dips. My target is that in a few weeks ill stop using the assistance.
September 14th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I use them mainly due to having a chronically, bad shoulder joint that sometimes “gives out” on me.
Overall, this seems to be just a discussion regarding form and the muscles recruited. ALL exercises are good in my opinion, as long as they challenge you sufficiently.
September 15th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@Keith, yes, form and recruited muscles are part of it (an important part). But the other part is the rate of progress. I’m still of the mind (based on what I’ve seen) that you will progress faster by just doing the real thing. Not that the machine won’t let you progress at all. It’s just slower. For example, if you’re only able to do 3 or 4 real chin-ups now, I would bet you with 10 to 1 odds that I could get you to double your count faster without the machine than you could get with the machine. I know, pretty cocky, but in most cases it’s true.
I’m sensing I’m in the minority here though! Perhaps we’ll get some more views soon…
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:36 am
I added resistence training this spring. I couldn’t do a single pullup. I used the assisted machine (and still do). I can do 8 pullups (palms away) unassisted now. My goal is 10.
I use the assist to do what Luke Lowery calls plyo pullups. I try to let go of the bar at the top (at least relax my grip).
I used it very briefly for dips and don’t use it for them any more.
The machine gives you a consistent reference for those who can’t do one. The goal is not to use the machine forever.
I should add that I am 59 years old.
Paul
October 12th, 2009 at 1:58 am
Screw the machine. Use a spotter…(You should have a partner anyways…)
October 16th, 2009 at 8:46 am
Since my wife and I are spending all our workout time at the rec center *without* the assisted pullup machine, we’re doing things the old-fashioned way. I’m maxing out with 4 or 5 with the wide overhand grip, then getting in another couple with the neutral grip. My wife is able to get three with me holding her feet and providing what I feel is minimal assistance (I really don’t feel myself lifting, but I’m sure I’m helping some). She’ll also hang on for a while afterwards. She does say that these absolutely kill her, and she runs out of steam towards the end of our workout. We’ll keep this routine up; hopefully she can get to where she can do a few on her own.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:47 am
I use the assisted pullup machine because I’m not strong enough to do proper one arm pullups …. yet !
For regular pullups I use the smith machine btw.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:16 am
@wazzup – great addition – using the assist machine to get to the point of doing 1-arm pull-ups. That sounds like a pretty good use of the thing! And I assume when you say the smith machine for regular pullups, I assume you just mean you raise the bar in the smith rack, keep it locked in one place as it if were a fixed bar right? please don’t tell me you are doing something crazy with “moving-bar-pull-ups-in-smith-rack” (smile)
November 14th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
No worries, smith bar locked in highest position. Put a 10 kilo plate on a band which I tie around my waist and up (and down) we go. I tried to use a dipping belt, but still prefer this simple band I once bought for a buck and a half at the local mountain climb store. Only when I put on a lot of weight the band starts cutting into my waist (like 40 kilo but that’s only for a single or so)
One thing our assisted pullup machine offers is a neutral grip (but you can always lock down the stack so you can use it un-assisted)
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 pm
I started at the 140 lb and have worked my way down to using only 80 lb. and am having very good results. I love dips and can’t wait untill I can do them unassisted which should be in 3 months. My husband has been doing dips for 30 years with a 45 lb weight on a belt.
January 5th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
My wife has progressed to where she can do three neutral-grip pullups with pretty good form. She doesn’t go down quite all the way – we’re working on that. But she feels very good that she can do what she is doing. She got there mainly by doing pullups with me holding her feet and providing some help. She’d also do the negative portion for a little longer than normal. I started providing less and less assistance until one day she did a couple on her own. We’ve also started doing planks regularly, which has helped her core strength. We may be weaned from the assisted pullup machine!