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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s a Reach To Say You Must Stretch</title>
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	<description>The Art and Science of Building Lean Muscle Mass &#60;br&#62;and An Awesome Physique for Men Over 40</description>
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		<title>By: Darrin</title>
		<link>http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2009/11/its-a-reach-to-say-you-must-stretch/comment-page-1/#comment-6422</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/?p=1637#comment-6422</guid>
		<description>@breezy - Byron, I&#039;ll defer to you on this.  I&#039;m not an expert on soft tissue work.  But I think the whole idea of recovery and preparation is so important that I added it to the forum at http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/forum/recovery-warm-up-prehab/ .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@breezy &#8211; Byron, I&#8217;ll defer to you on this.  I&#8217;m not an expert on soft tissue work.  But I think the whole idea of recovery and preparation is so important that I added it to the forum at <a href="http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/forum/recovery-warm-up-prehab/" rel="nofollow">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com.....up-prehab/</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: breezy909</title>
		<link>http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2009/11/its-a-reach-to-say-you-must-stretch/comment-page-1/#comment-6388</link>
		<dc:creator>breezy909</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/?p=1637#comment-6388</guid>
		<description>p.s forgot the vital part...
Only foam roll/stretch what is tight and is necessary

Sry again if im a little objective D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.s forgot the vital part&#8230;<br />
Only foam roll/stretch what is tight and is necessary</p>
<p>Sry again if im a little objective D</p>
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		<title>By: breezy909</title>
		<link>http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2009/11/its-a-reach-to-say-you-must-stretch/comment-page-1/#comment-6387</link>
		<dc:creator>breezy909</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/?p=1637#comment-6387</guid>
		<description>guys im going to chip in a little on the stretching topic.

I like to try &amp; simplify things.
Stretching. What/why &amp; how are we trying to stretch?

What - Stretching of the tight muscle(or fascia which is now the debate)

Why - Incorrect muscle length impairs correct movement/mobility/flexibility

How - Static stretches ( These are usually held for so little time that they have no result in tissue lenghtening if any)

Dynamic warm - ups are great, but if one has very tight calves/hip flexors(being general here) they need to be addressed first (knees and lower back would try to move too much, to compensate for lack of ankle/hip mobility). Ive successfully used soft tissue work(foam rolling/tennis balls/the sick etc) followed with static stretching &amp; dynamic warmup with my 40&#039;s +. Ive found without rolling, that stretching is not as nearly as productive.

What are your views on soft tissue work?

Byron</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>guys im going to chip in a little on the stretching topic.</p>
<p>I like to try &amp; simplify things.<br />
Stretching. What/why &amp; how are we trying to stretch?</p>
<p>What &#8211; Stretching of the tight muscle(or fascia which is now the debate)</p>
<p>Why &#8211; Incorrect muscle length impairs correct movement/mobility/flexibility</p>
<p>How &#8211; Static stretches ( These are usually held for so little time that they have no result in tissue lenghtening if any)</p>
<p>Dynamic warm &#8211; ups are great, but if one has very tight calves/hip flexors(being general here) they need to be addressed first (knees and lower back would try to move too much, to compensate for lack of ankle/hip mobility). Ive successfully used soft tissue work(foam rolling/tennis balls/the sick etc) followed with static stretching &amp; dynamic warmup with my 40&#8242;s +. Ive found without rolling, that stretching is not as nearly as productive.</p>
<p>What are your views on soft tissue work?</p>
<p>Byron</p>
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		<title>By: Darrin</title>
		<link>http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2009/11/its-a-reach-to-say-you-must-stretch/comment-page-1/#comment-6372</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/?p=1637#comment-6372</guid>
		<description>@bwall - wow!  Thanks for that perspective.  Generally I believe you are on track, but it depends on the specific stretch you are doing.  Some emphasize muscles, others emphasize tendons.  And I know from painful personal experience, there are many specific stretches for the fascia in your feet.  Though like you I am no doctor.  Also, at least one study (http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2009/03000/A_Randomized_Controlled_Trial_of_Hamstring.40.aspx) has shown that dynamic stretching is more likely to lengthen the muscle than static stretching. And underscore what I&#039;ve always said (which is consistent with this article) - static stretching is GREAT.  But only AFTER you lift, not before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@bwall &#8211; wow!  Thanks for that perspective.  Generally I believe you are on track, but it depends on the specific stretch you are doing.  Some emphasize muscles, others emphasize tendons.  And I know from painful personal experience, there are many specific stretches for the fascia in your feet.  Though like you I am no doctor.  Also, at least one study (<a href="http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2009/03000/A_Randomized_Controlled_Trial_of_Hamstring.40.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://journals.lww.com/nsca-j.....ng.40.aspx</a>) has shown that dynamic stretching is more likely to lengthen the muscle than static stretching. And underscore what I&#8217;ve always said (which is consistent with this article) &#8211; static stretching is GREAT.  But only AFTER you lift, not before.</p>
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		<title>By: bwall</title>
		<link>http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2009/11/its-a-reach-to-say-you-must-stretch/comment-page-1/#comment-6354</link>
		<dc:creator>bwall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/?p=1637#comment-6354</guid>
		<description>All I know is from personal experience from basically the perspective of an intramural level athlete who is now retired from organized sports.  I am 43.

Stretching beforehand used to make me feel better.  Logically, I thought that if your range of motion was decreased and you engaged in sports and put stresses on things, that you would have less flexibility, subject yourself to possible range of motion injuries, and decreased performance.  I know that with dancing and martial arts, range of motion is very often part of the presentation of the routines.  You don&#039;t stretch and you try to hit the high side kicks or do the various floor splits, and injury you will have for sure.  But, I also know that when you are getting ready to exercise where range of motion limits are not likely to be tested, stretching makes my muscles feel lethargic and it takes 5-10 minutes of steady low-level exercise to recover.  I tell my music students to stretch lightly after warmups and after band practice when things are warm, but not before competing as this partial paralysis feeling actually makes fine motor control worse.

On another note, I have always wondered just what are you stretching?  When you extend your range of motion by doing static stretches, what is getting longer?  Muscle fibers, connective tissue, what?  I have a theory that I have not heard and I will throw it out here.  I have the theory that since I suspect that muscle fibers are somewhat less tough than connective tissue tendons (true or false?)  that static stretching is working the muscles primarily and not the connective tissue.  Why do I think this?  Well, it is logical I guess from a materials mechanical properties point of view.  But, how far can we stretch this way?  Can we stretch the muscle tissue to full structural range of motion if we &#039;just keep at it&#039;?  I have been doing the seated butterfly stretch since I was a dancer, age 6-12.  I have a lot more inherent range of motion than other males my age by a lot.  But, if I statically stretch twice a day, holding the stretch for 60 seconds at each additional range of motion gain, I can increase my range of motion a lot.  These gains remain the next day, and months later, I just sit down and pop my legs down and they are very wide in range of motion without stretching.  BUT, if I stop stretching this way for a month, and then go back to it, my range of motion is very diminished and it takes me just as long to make those gains again as it did the first time.  So this is odd right?  I have an inherently better than average range of motion due to gains I made when I was young that seem to be permanently set.  I can make additional range of motion gains, by regular static stretching, but these gains are lost relatively quickly if I stop but easily maintained if I keep at it.  Two levels of range of motion here, a permanent one that was acquired in my youth, and one that I acquire as an adult that is fleeting.  Why is it fleeting?  Very odd.

To add more to the story:  I have been doing dynamic hamstring stretching since I was taught to do it that way in high school football, although I do not kick my leg back in the hurdler&#039;s stretch position of old anymore.  I have always been jealous of those runners who plop down on the floor and flop over and put their foreheads on their shins.  Damn!  I have been working at that stretch for years and best I can do is get about three fingers between my head and my leg.  I stretch long and regularly, and still I hit the wall on range of motion and can not go past a certain point no matter what.  Until I discovered dead lifts...    I was having problems with my knees.  I was lifting heavy weights on isolation machines (I know, but hey I am not a jock anymore OK?).  But the isolation I figured out eventually was causing severe havoc with my knee joints, unusual wear and tear.  So, I switched over to deadlifts to get away from isolation.  I stretched out statically like always first, light.  I did it all in proper form, light weights (maybe a 45 bar with one 45 on each side) and did three sets of 8.  Felt pretty good.  I was surprised.  Never did it before.  I finished my leg workout and then went in for my light stretching cool down phase.  I sat down to do the hamstring stretch, bent over my leg, and my forehead went right down onto my shin, blam!  No tension, nothing, right the hell down.  That was a very large gain in range of motion for not having been able to do it, having worked on it for years.  I asked myself why this would be.  I could have physically ripped my muscles up allowing them to be longer like when you start to rip a shirt or something.  Or perhaps I was stretching something else.  I came up with a model that maybe since my muscles were under tension during this motion, unlike during static non-load bearing stretches, that my muscle was fighting being stretched hard enough that maybe the toughness was brought up to the level of the connective tissue tendons and they were getting a pull now a bit more.  I have continued this exercise and my range of motion continues to be increased.  

To test the theory, I do static stretching of other body parts, calves, groin, etc.  I stretch out the way I always have, but then when I hit the wall on static stretching and my range of motion is maxed, I flex my muscle in that position isometrically, hard, and keep pushing.  Two things I notice when I do that:  First, the slight pain-like feeling of static stretching goes away, and second, my range of motion ALWAYS increases!  Weird huh?  Am I gaining something from this type of deal?  Am I stretching connective tissue?  Does the slight pain of stretching cause the muscle to try to protect itself by tightening up preventing full range of motion possible?  Does taking the pain away by flexing, allow the muscle to relax this behavior and allow a bigger range of motion even though the act of flexing should be trying to shorten the muscles?  This is all very weird.

So, I am not a doctor and I am not recommending anyone do anything.  I am just throwing out my observations and if anyone has any thoughts about this, particularly physiology, I would like to hear them.  Always trying to learn how stuff works.

BWall
Ohio</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I know is from personal experience from basically the perspective of an intramural level athlete who is now retired from organized sports.  I am 43.</p>
<p>Stretching beforehand used to make me feel better.  Logically, I thought that if your range of motion was decreased and you engaged in sports and put stresses on things, that you would have less flexibility, subject yourself to possible range of motion injuries, and decreased performance.  I know that with dancing and martial arts, range of motion is very often part of the presentation of the routines.  You don&#8217;t stretch and you try to hit the high side kicks or do the various floor splits, and injury you will have for sure.  But, I also know that when you are getting ready to exercise where range of motion limits are not likely to be tested, stretching makes my muscles feel lethargic and it takes 5-10 minutes of steady low-level exercise to recover.  I tell my music students to stretch lightly after warmups and after band practice when things are warm, but not before competing as this partial paralysis feeling actually makes fine motor control worse.</p>
<p>On another note, I have always wondered just what are you stretching?  When you extend your range of motion by doing static stretches, what is getting longer?  Muscle fibers, connective tissue, what?  I have a theory that I have not heard and I will throw it out here.  I have the theory that since I suspect that muscle fibers are somewhat less tough than connective tissue tendons (true or false?)  that static stretching is working the muscles primarily and not the connective tissue.  Why do I think this?  Well, it is logical I guess from a materials mechanical properties point of view.  But, how far can we stretch this way?  Can we stretch the muscle tissue to full structural range of motion if we &#8216;just keep at it&#8217;?  I have been doing the seated butterfly stretch since I was a dancer, age 6-12.  I have a lot more inherent range of motion than other males my age by a lot.  But, if I statically stretch twice a day, holding the stretch for 60 seconds at each additional range of motion gain, I can increase my range of motion a lot.  These gains remain the next day, and months later, I just sit down and pop my legs down and they are very wide in range of motion without stretching.  BUT, if I stop stretching this way for a month, and then go back to it, my range of motion is very diminished and it takes me just as long to make those gains again as it did the first time.  So this is odd right?  I have an inherently better than average range of motion due to gains I made when I was young that seem to be permanently set.  I can make additional range of motion gains, by regular static stretching, but these gains are lost relatively quickly if I stop but easily maintained if I keep at it.  Two levels of range of motion here, a permanent one that was acquired in my youth, and one that I acquire as an adult that is fleeting.  Why is it fleeting?  Very odd.</p>
<p>To add more to the story:  I have been doing dynamic hamstring stretching since I was taught to do it that way in high school football, although I do not kick my leg back in the hurdler&#8217;s stretch position of old anymore.  I have always been jealous of those runners who plop down on the floor and flop over and put their foreheads on their shins.  Damn!  I have been working at that stretch for years and best I can do is get about three fingers between my head and my leg.  I stretch long and regularly, and still I hit the wall on range of motion and can not go past a certain point no matter what.  Until I discovered dead lifts&#8230;    I was having problems with my knees.  I was lifting heavy weights on isolation machines (I know, but hey I am not a jock anymore OK?).  But the isolation I figured out eventually was causing severe havoc with my knee joints, unusual wear and tear.  So, I switched over to deadlifts to get away from isolation.  I stretched out statically like always first, light.  I did it all in proper form, light weights (maybe a 45 bar with one 45 on each side) and did three sets of 8.  Felt pretty good.  I was surprised.  Never did it before.  I finished my leg workout and then went in for my light stretching cool down phase.  I sat down to do the hamstring stretch, bent over my leg, and my forehead went right down onto my shin, blam!  No tension, nothing, right the hell down.  That was a very large gain in range of motion for not having been able to do it, having worked on it for years.  I asked myself why this would be.  I could have physically ripped my muscles up allowing them to be longer like when you start to rip a shirt or something.  Or perhaps I was stretching something else.  I came up with a model that maybe since my muscles were under tension during this motion, unlike during static non-load bearing stretches, that my muscle was fighting being stretched hard enough that maybe the toughness was brought up to the level of the connective tissue tendons and they were getting a pull now a bit more.  I have continued this exercise and my range of motion continues to be increased.  </p>
<p>To test the theory, I do static stretching of other body parts, calves, groin, etc.  I stretch out the way I always have, but then when I hit the wall on static stretching and my range of motion is maxed, I flex my muscle in that position isometrically, hard, and keep pushing.  Two things I notice when I do that:  First, the slight pain-like feeling of static stretching goes away, and second, my range of motion ALWAYS increases!  Weird huh?  Am I gaining something from this type of deal?  Am I stretching connective tissue?  Does the slight pain of stretching cause the muscle to try to protect itself by tightening up preventing full range of motion possible?  Does taking the pain away by flexing, allow the muscle to relax this behavior and allow a bigger range of motion even though the act of flexing should be trying to shorten the muscles?  This is all very weird.</p>
<p>So, I am not a doctor and I am not recommending anyone do anything.  I am just throwing out my observations and if anyone has any thoughts about this, particularly physiology, I would like to hear them.  Always trying to learn how stuff works.</p>
<p>BWall<br />
Ohio</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2009/11/its-a-reach-to-say-you-must-stretch/comment-page-1/#comment-6116</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/?p=1637#comment-6116</guid>
		<description>I do 5 mins of static streching and then do a warmup set at 50% of the weight. Then I do my &quot;real&quot; sets. Also do 10 mins HIIT after the weight training and then do 5 mins of static streching again. Not had any issues till date so if it ain&#039;t broken, should one fix it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do 5 mins of static streching and then do a warmup set at 50% of the weight. Then I do my &#8220;real&#8221; sets. Also do 10 mins HIIT after the weight training and then do 5 mins of static streching again. Not had any issues till date so if it ain&#8217;t broken, should one fix it?</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy McKee</title>
		<link>http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2009/11/its-a-reach-to-say-you-must-stretch/comment-page-1/#comment-6074</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy McKee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/?p=1637#comment-6074</guid>
		<description>From my own experience as an athlete for almost 40 years (Football, Basketball, Track &amp; Field, Baseball, Bodybuilding, Boxing, MMA, and Powerlifting &#039;still a powerlifter and multi world champion and record holder)I find this article to be quite accurate. I always progressively warmup for my workouts with very little (if any) stretching and never past normal range or prolonged duration. My lifts are as high as at any age. At age 53 I&#039;ve made competition lifts of: 810 Lb. squat - 600 Lb. bench press - 600 eadlift. All within the last year. I&#039;ve had very few muscle or connective tissue related injuries in my career. My injuries have been concussions, cartilege tears, and broken bones. Contact/colision related injuries in the earlier contact sports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my own experience as an athlete for almost 40 years (Football, Basketball, Track &amp; Field, Baseball, Bodybuilding, Boxing, MMA, and Powerlifting &#8216;still a powerlifter and multi world champion and record holder)I find this article to be quite accurate. I always progressively warmup for my workouts with very little (if any) stretching and never past normal range or prolonged duration. My lifts are as high as at any age. At age 53 I&#8217;ve made competition lifts of: 810 Lb. squat &#8211; 600 Lb. bench press &#8211; 600 eadlift. All within the last year. I&#8217;ve had very few muscle or connective tissue related injuries in my career. My injuries have been concussions, cartilege tears, and broken bones. Contact/colision related injuries in the earlier contact sports.</p>
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